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	<title>Komentar di: Vatican: The Extraterrestrial Is My Brethren</title>
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	<link>http://nggieng.wordpress.com/2008/05/26/vatican-the-extraterrestrial-is-my-brethren/</link>
	<description>Conundrum of Astronomy, particularly in South East Asia</description>
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		<title>Oleh: WISDOM</title>
		<link>http://nggieng.wordpress.com/2008/05/26/vatican-the-extraterrestrial-is-my-brethren/#comment-259</link>
		<dc:creator>WISDOM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nggieng.wordpress.com/?p=165#comment-259</guid>
		<description>Does Hubble not provide images of stars being born? Stars Dying? Of planets forming? The argument is far older than the 1800&#039;s. What is to be interpreted literally and what is to be justified introspectively? Why is little mention of the understanding of the obvious existence of matter, processes, creation, and evolution outside of our immediate existence, both linearly in time and by distance in space. 

Dinosaurs WERE here for 150 million years. Matter and evolution DO go on around us, outside of us, all the time. We either must expand our understanding, a non-literal interpretation of biblical events, or accept that the whole story of creation has not been given to us, or handed down to us. Aliens, by the definition of a race of intelligent beings, is irrelevant when it is the existence of anything outside of the written explanation, of our faith, that is to be alien.

&quot;Perhaps&quot;, &quot;Maybe&quot;, and &quot;What if&quot; will be the common preface in future discussions about faith. Perhaps, in the universe of equal and opposite forces it is Doubt that is the antithesis of Faith and the catalyst to the search. 

You either know, or you don&#039;t. You&#039;re either searching, or you&#039;re not.

If you are searching, then you don&#039;t know it and you don&#039;t have complete faith in it. 

Faith is not the practice of strengthening ones beliefs, it is in the actions of a life of knowing and believing.

This is a perspective gained by being on the fence myself. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does Hubble not provide images of stars being born? Stars Dying? Of planets forming? The argument is far older than the 1800&#8217;s. What is to be interpreted literally and what is to be justified introspectively? Why is little mention of the understanding of the obvious existence of matter, processes, creation, and evolution outside of our immediate existence, both linearly in time and by distance in space. </p>
<p>Dinosaurs WERE here for 150 million years. Matter and evolution DO go on around us, outside of us, all the time. We either must expand our understanding, a non-literal interpretation of biblical events, or accept that the whole story of creation has not been given to us, or handed down to us. Aliens, by the definition of a race of intelligent beings, is irrelevant when it is the existence of anything outside of the written explanation, of our faith, that is to be alien.</p>
<p>&#8220;Perhaps&#8221;, &#8220;Maybe&#8221;, and &#8220;What if&#8221; will be the common preface in future discussions about faith. Perhaps, in the universe of equal and opposite forces it is Doubt that is the antithesis of Faith and the catalyst to the search. </p>
<p>You either know, or you don&#8217;t. You&#8217;re either searching, or you&#8217;re not.</p>
<p>If you are searching, then you don&#8217;t know it and you don&#8217;t have complete faith in it. </p>
<p>Faith is not the practice of strengthening ones beliefs, it is in the actions of a life of knowing and believing.</p>
<p>This is a perspective gained by being on the fence myself. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Oleh: cassini</title>
		<link>http://nggieng.wordpress.com/2008/05/26/vatican-the-extraterrestrial-is-my-brethren/#comment-233</link>
		<dc:creator>cassini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nggieng.wordpress.com/?p=165#comment-233</guid>
		<description>Nggieng, THE EARTHMOVERS has the following on its cover
 &#039;Herein the untold story of the Galileo Case
the scientific and metaphysical magic
designed to destroy Catholic faith on earth.

On the back cover is the following

There was a time on this earth when all of mankind adhered to the ‘Genesis’ cosmology, that is, they knew our globe of life to be the created material and spiritual fixture at the centre of the universe, with the sun, moon and stars moving around it in many different ways every year, every month and every day. This is what is, what they saw and experienced, what we see and experience, what is reality to all.
     
In the sixteenth to nineteenth centuries however, there was concluded a mission dating back some thousands of years, the reinstallation of the occult Egyptian, Gnostic and hermetic cosmology, an integral part of the ancient pagan world, a conversion that would change how all people - of both Church and State - perceived the universe and man’s place in it.

What in fact emerged was a diabolical revolution against the triune God in the guise of science against faith, a catalyst of rationalism that spread its multi-faceted ideology under the progressively sounding names of the ‘Renaissance’ and the ‘Enlightenment’, an upheaval so devious and widespread in its application, so subtle in its methods, so universal in its success, so thorough in its continuity, that it can only be classed as the most brilliant intellectual deception in the whole of history. 

Much of the enclosed is meant to convey, as regards faith and science in particular, the deliberation and intelligence by which long established occult powers can conform ideas, beliefs and the flow of history to that all-pervasive dogma of equilibrium in which Newtonian gravity is their crown jewel. 

This then is the story of the Earthmovers and Sun-Fixers, who they were, why they needed to move the earth and fix the sun, and most of all how they did it. 

OK Nggieng.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nggieng, THE EARTHMOVERS has the following on its cover<br />
 &#8216;Herein the untold story of the Galileo Case<br />
the scientific and metaphysical magic<br />
designed to destroy Catholic faith on earth.</p>
<p>On the back cover is the following</p>
<p>There was a time on this earth when all of mankind adhered to the ‘Genesis’ cosmology, that is, they knew our globe of life to be the created material and spiritual fixture at the centre of the universe, with the sun, moon and stars moving around it in many different ways every year, every month and every day. This is what is, what they saw and experienced, what we see and experience, what is reality to all.</p>
<p>In the sixteenth to nineteenth centuries however, there was concluded a mission dating back some thousands of years, the reinstallation of the occult Egyptian, Gnostic and hermetic cosmology, an integral part of the ancient pagan world, a conversion that would change how all people &#8211; of both Church and State &#8211; perceived the universe and man’s place in it.</p>
<p>What in fact emerged was a diabolical revolution against the triune God in the guise of science against faith, a catalyst of rationalism that spread its multi-faceted ideology under the progressively sounding names of the ‘Renaissance’ and the ‘Enlightenment’, an upheaval so devious and widespread in its application, so subtle in its methods, so universal in its success, so thorough in its continuity, that it can only be classed as the most brilliant intellectual deception in the whole of history. </p>
<p>Much of the enclosed is meant to convey, as regards faith and science in particular, the deliberation and intelligence by which long established occult powers can conform ideas, beliefs and the flow of history to that all-pervasive dogma of equilibrium in which Newtonian gravity is their crown jewel. </p>
<p>This then is the story of the Earthmovers and Sun-Fixers, who they were, why they needed to move the earth and fix the sun, and most of all how they did it. </p>
<p>OK Nggieng.</p>
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		<title>Oleh: Ira</title>
		<link>http://nggieng.wordpress.com/2008/05/26/vatican-the-extraterrestrial-is-my-brethren/#comment-232</link>
		<dc:creator>Ira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 02:48:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nggieng.wordpress.com/?p=165#comment-232</guid>
		<description>Umm...... indeed, I didn&#039;t know that Vatican has Astronomer as well.

This article reminds me of  Philip Pullman&#039;s book, The Golden Compass. Not in particular, it&#039;s just that, when I read this article, the book suddenly crossed my mind, that&#039;s all. :-D

Nice one Anggie ! ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Umm&#8230;&#8230; indeed, I didn&#8217;t know that Vatican has Astronomer as well.</p>
<p>This article reminds me of  Philip Pullman&#8217;s book, The Golden Compass. Not in particular, it&#8217;s just that, when I read this article, the book suddenly crossed my mind, that&#8217;s all. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Nice one Anggie ! <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Oleh: nggieng</title>
		<link>http://nggieng.wordpress.com/2008/05/26/vatican-the-extraterrestrial-is-my-brethren/#comment-231</link>
		<dc:creator>nggieng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 07:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nggieng.wordpress.com/?p=165#comment-231</guid>
		<description>Dear Cassini, well indeed there is no such evidence of alien at all. And i will not try to speculate about their existence nor try to defend the Vatican. However, what i have learned from what  Vatican&#039;s said, that is: this is about the lesson about ourselves - our own ourselves… our own assumptions, expectations, even prejudices. Maybe this &#039;speculation&#039; from Fr. Funes, can help us understand in a newer and deeper way what God’s creation and salvation really mean, for all of God’s creation. (Cited from Bruder Guy Consolmagno, astronomer from Vatican).

Yes, i agree that we are dealing with salvation according to scripture, but we never knew the limit of our understanding on God&#039;s creation, and form my point of view, the fides et ratio is the complementary essential set of device given to us, humanity, to understand the mystery of the creation and the nature and how the God has spoken to us.

I hope we come to an understanding. Btw, i would like to read your book, THE EARTH MOVERS, just tell me about that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Cassini, well indeed there is no such evidence of alien at all. And i will not try to speculate about their existence nor try to defend the Vatican. However, what i have learned from what  Vatican&#8217;s said, that is: this is about the lesson about ourselves &#8211; our own ourselves… our own assumptions, expectations, even prejudices. Maybe this &#8217;speculation&#8217; from Fr. Funes, can help us understand in a newer and deeper way what God’s creation and salvation really mean, for all of God’s creation. (Cited from Bruder Guy Consolmagno, astronomer from Vatican).</p>
<p>Yes, i agree that we are dealing with salvation according to scripture, but we never knew the limit of our understanding on God&#8217;s creation, and form my point of view, the fides et ratio is the complementary essential set of device given to us, humanity, to understand the mystery of the creation and the nature and how the God has spoken to us.</p>
<p>I hope we come to an understanding. Btw, i would like to read your book, THE EARTH MOVERS, just tell me about that.</p>
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		<title>Oleh: cassini</title>
		<link>http://nggieng.wordpress.com/2008/05/26/vatican-the-extraterrestrial-is-my-brethren/#comment-230</link>
		<dc:creator>cassini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 16:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nggieng.wordpress.com/?p=165#comment-230</guid>
		<description>Ngging, for someone &#039;not religious&#039;, that is one very religious reply that I should like to respond to.Having studied the history of faith and science for the last 15 years in order to write a book onit that I am calling THE EARTHMOVERS, I read far more into Fr Funes statement that anyone else does. There is a history to a priest of the 2008 Catholic Church making such a statement from an observatory. It is an accumulation of betrayal perpetrated on the Catholic Church&#039;s true position, a truth abandoned around 1850. Fr Funes knows nothing apart from the stars he sees in his telescope. His interpretation of what he sees is an ideilogy adopted by popes and clergymen since the nineteenth century. Take for example his view of the sky. Where does he see &#039;the clear evolutionary process&#039;? Has he seen a star form or a planet form as this evolutionary ideology says? No he has not, he simply says it without any evidence at all, just like his aliens. The stars are there as a witness to God and the Fall, a sensual witness to Genesis One that should act as a subordinate means to salvation. Thanks to the Copernicans in the Church since 1616, now represented by the hierarchy in Rome, this way to God has been eliminated. today they undermine the faith with science fiction they actually take seriously. It is called intellectual pride and no doubt he has good standing among the atheists and agnostics that dominate astronomy and cosmology today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ngging, for someone &#8216;not religious&#8217;, that is one very religious reply that I should like to respond to.Having studied the history of faith and science for the last 15 years in order to write a book onit that I am calling THE EARTHMOVERS, I read far more into Fr Funes statement that anyone else does. There is a history to a priest of the 2008 Catholic Church making such a statement from an observatory. It is an accumulation of betrayal perpetrated on the Catholic Church&#8217;s true position, a truth abandoned around 1850. Fr Funes knows nothing apart from the stars he sees in his telescope. His interpretation of what he sees is an ideilogy adopted by popes and clergymen since the nineteenth century. Take for example his view of the sky. Where does he see &#8216;the clear evolutionary process&#8217;? Has he seen a star form or a planet form as this evolutionary ideology says? No he has not, he simply says it without any evidence at all, just like his aliens. The stars are there as a witness to God and the Fall, a sensual witness to Genesis One that should act as a subordinate means to salvation. Thanks to the Copernicans in the Church since 1616, now represented by the hierarchy in Rome, this way to God has been eliminated. today they undermine the faith with science fiction they actually take seriously. It is called intellectual pride and no doubt he has good standing among the atheists and agnostics that dominate astronomy and cosmology today.</p>
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		<title>Oleh: nggieng</title>
		<link>http://nggieng.wordpress.com/2008/05/26/vatican-the-extraterrestrial-is-my-brethren/#comment-229</link>
		<dc:creator>nggieng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 04:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nggieng.wordpress.com/?p=165#comment-229</guid>
		<description>Dear Cassini, imho that would be too early to claim that Fr. Funes is another publicity seeker, since, he is the Director of Vatican Observatory, so he has the capacity to speak about what the scientists in Vatican Observatory had worked about for sometimes. They should have scientific supports here and there. Indeed that no exoplanets have been identified (yet), but that does not mean that it does not exist at all. The debate still open &amp; that is the way of science. I kinda agree with Dyah Yasmina, it is the human that put the differences into matter, since the understanding stemmed from human perspective anyway.

Well, i am not a religious person, so i will not much dwell in the spiritual discussion, neither discuss much from scripture, but citing from St. Augustine about the scripture and scientific phenomena should give us something to ponder:

With the scriptures it is a matter of treating about the faith. For that reason, as I have noted repeatedly, if anyone, not understanding the mode of divine eloquence, should find something about these matters [about the physical universe] in our books, or hear of the same from those books, of such a kind that it seems to be at variance with the perceptions of his own rational faculties, let him believe that these other things are in no way necessary to the admonitions or accounts or predictions of the scriptures. In short, it must be said that our authors knew the truth about the nature of the skies, but it was not the intention of the Spirit of God, who spoke through them, to teach men anything that would not be of use to them for their salvation.

For Nia, well .. this is not only for the Christendom, but this might open the pandora box for many faith systems in the world, whether we are alone in the vast universe? Or indeed we are the special one?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Cassini, imho that would be too early to claim that Fr. Funes is another publicity seeker, since, he is the Director of Vatican Observatory, so he has the capacity to speak about what the scientists in Vatican Observatory had worked about for sometimes. They should have scientific supports here and there. Indeed that no exoplanets have been identified (yet), but that does not mean that it does not exist at all. The debate still open &amp; that is the way of science. I kinda agree with Dyah Yasmina, it is the human that put the differences into matter, since the understanding stemmed from human perspective anyway.</p>
<p>Well, i am not a religious person, so i will not much dwell in the spiritual discussion, neither discuss much from scripture, but citing from St. Augustine about the scripture and scientific phenomena should give us something to ponder:</p>
<p>With the scriptures it is a matter of treating about the faith. For that reason, as I have noted repeatedly, if anyone, not understanding the mode of divine eloquence, should find something about these matters [about the physical universe] in our books, or hear of the same from those books, of such a kind that it seems to be at variance with the perceptions of his own rational faculties, let him believe that these other things are in no way necessary to the admonitions or accounts or predictions of the scriptures. In short, it must be said that our authors knew the truth about the nature of the skies, but it was not the intention of the Spirit of God, who spoke through them, to teach men anything that would not be of use to them for their salvation.</p>
<p>For Nia, well .. this is not only for the Christendom, but this might open the pandora box for many faith systems in the world, whether we are alone in the vast universe? Or indeed we are the special one?</p>
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		<title>Oleh: nia</title>
		<link>http://nggieng.wordpress.com/2008/05/26/vatican-the-extraterrestrial-is-my-brethren/#comment-228</link>
		<dc:creator>nia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 09:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nggieng.wordpress.com/?p=165#comment-228</guid>
		<description>Wow.. i just knew that the Vatican have astronomers :)
and whay did it take so long to get the thoughts?
On one side, i think this is a good news, on other side, i kinda aggree with cassini - perhaps for sake of some publicity . well let&#039;s see what&#039;s changing inside the Church then. Do the followers or the Christians agree unquestionably or not. just follow what the Vatican said -as usual :p
Like Nggieng said: it&#039;s how humanity sees possibilities :)
Hmm.. a cosmic spirituality? 
*thinking mode on*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.. i just knew that the Vatican have astronomers <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
and whay did it take so long to get the thoughts?<br />
On one side, i think this is a good news, on other side, i kinda aggree with cassini &#8211; perhaps for sake of some publicity . well let&#8217;s see what&#8217;s changing inside the Church then. Do the followers or the Christians agree unquestionably or not. just follow what the Vatican said -as usual :p<br />
Like Nggieng said: it&#8217;s how humanity sees possibilities <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Hmm.. a cosmic spirituality?<br />
*thinking mode on*</p>
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		<title>Oleh: cassini</title>
		<link>http://nggieng.wordpress.com/2008/05/26/vatican-the-extraterrestrial-is-my-brethren/#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator>cassini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 23:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nggieng.wordpress.com/?p=165#comment-227</guid>
		<description>I thought Copernican Rome could not drag the Catholic faith any further into disrepute, but I was wrong. A simple visit into a few blogsites will confirm this. If anyone out there wants to know, here is one Catholic that will have nothing to do with people that believe in aliens and that they can pervert and insult a parable of Christ to make it fit their ignorant ideology. To even argue that aliens have not one iota of scientific evidence would be wrong as it would be taking this Fr Funes seriously. 
What I will say is that no “exoplanets” have actually been identified outside of star ‘perturbations’ that are interpreted as being planets. Given that  ‘perturbations’ are the figment of the erroneous maths of Newton&#039;s elliptical orbits, they have no reality outside of maths. The universe does not show ‘a clear evolutionary process’ as Fr Funes states but only one of decay, stars burning out and stellar debris clearly visible, just as St Paul stated in the Scriptures as a result of the Fall (‘because creation itself also will be delivered from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the sons of God. For we know that all creation groans and travails in pain until now.’ [Rom. 8: 21-22]. I for one, consider Fr Funes is no more than a modernist publicity seeker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought Copernican Rome could not drag the Catholic faith any further into disrepute, but I was wrong. A simple visit into a few blogsites will confirm this. If anyone out there wants to know, here is one Catholic that will have nothing to do with people that believe in aliens and that they can pervert and insult a parable of Christ to make it fit their ignorant ideology. To even argue that aliens have not one iota of scientific evidence would be wrong as it would be taking this Fr Funes seriously.<br />
What I will say is that no “exoplanets” have actually been identified outside of star ‘perturbations’ that are interpreted as being planets. Given that  ‘perturbations’ are the figment of the erroneous maths of Newton&#8217;s elliptical orbits, they have no reality outside of maths. The universe does not show ‘a clear evolutionary process’ as Fr Funes states but only one of decay, stars burning out and stellar debris clearly visible, just as St Paul stated in the Scriptures as a result of the Fall (‘because creation itself also will be delivered from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the sons of God. For we know that all creation groans and travails in pain until now.’ [Rom. 8: 21-22]. I for one, consider Fr Funes is no more than a modernist publicity seeker.</p>
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		<title>Oleh: Dyah Yasmina</title>
		<link>http://nggieng.wordpress.com/2008/05/26/vatican-the-extraterrestrial-is-my-brethren/#comment-226</link>
		<dc:creator>Dyah Yasmina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 15:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nggieng.wordpress.com/?p=165#comment-226</guid>
		<description>Yap ... it&#039;s true that religion and science shouldn&#039;t be seen as opposing poles in human life. Even Carl Sagan said that science gives proofs of an extraordinary mind arranging the universe. The truth is, religion and science never oppose each other ... but religious institutions and scientific organizations (in the 18th century, supported by the Burgouis who are against the Church - especially on land ownership) do clash on basic principles of worldly mechanism. So it&#039;s never faith in God that creates polemic, it&#039;s political interest. By the way, it&#039;s a good news for man that the Church finally accept scientific researches as a partner&#039;s biblical studies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yap &#8230; it&#8217;s true that religion and science shouldn&#8217;t be seen as opposing poles in human life. Even Carl Sagan said that science gives proofs of an extraordinary mind arranging the universe. The truth is, religion and science never oppose each other &#8230; but religious institutions and scientific organizations (in the 18th century, supported by the Burgouis who are against the Church &#8211; especially on land ownership) do clash on basic principles of worldly mechanism. So it&#8217;s never faith in God that creates polemic, it&#8217;s political interest. By the way, it&#8217;s a good news for man that the Church finally accept scientific researches as a partner&#8217;s biblical studies.</p>
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